Housing protections include being unfairly evicted, denied housing, or refused the ability to rent or buy housing. But I think one of the main reasons was that I wanted to leave the Institute in good shape for the new director. That's perfect. It just worked out. WILLIAM DOANE: Well, thank you for inviting me.CRAWFORD: My pleasure. You'd have to ask Elaine Landry about the financial details of ALCOM. Our very first high-volume manufacturing line was supported by the state of Ohio. Professor Saupe became more involved [with the departmental faculty at that point too, as did Adriaan De Vries because they got support from THEMIS].Around '74 or so, after about four or five years of the THEMIS grant, the Air Force decided they didn't want to fund basic research anymore and the National Science Foundation, NSF, decided to take it over. The Town Center at Cobb shopping mall in Kennesaw will stay closed for at least 11 days, its parent company announced. It really gives us a lot of insight.DOANE: It's kind of fun to go back and think through these things. I thought it was a great opportunity to really get other people in physics besides myself involved in this. It was the rise of Hitler and that sort of stuff. [Laugh]CRAWFORD: Why did it seem so important or crucial to do this grant?DOANE: I thought it was marvelous. I wanted to learn Morse code, and I needed to make a little oscillator that would make tones and got a [telegraph] key, so I could [practice and] learn Morse code. However, I think it was the way universities operated at that particular time. Before, I was just working as a physics faculty member. The mall closed to customers Wednesday evening It is scheduled to reopen . And there was a market for writing tablets in China. He wasn't spending time at the Institute, the two weren't speaking to one another, and Glenn wanted to ask me if I would support him firing Fergason. A researcher can think he has something really great until he has to make something out of it. Universities transfer their research results to industry where products are developed and manufactured. I appreciate you doing this. Then, one weekend, this Bill comes to Kent and knocks on my door and says, "I have my son-in-law, Joel Domino, out in the car. We decided to focus on the use of displays in signs. Did those events shape the Institute in any significant way? He had held a Regents Professorship. It was a bit of an awkward thing for Jim because he didnt have the PhD. [Laugh] [You can also find yourself in expensive court battles trying to defend it. It's a very low-powered device.DOANE: The Boogie Board takes no power to write on it. You don't have to wad it up and throw it away. Is it based on the pressure?DOANE: The Boogie Board makes use of a type of liquid crystal that's extremely unique. It was just a great display to start high volume manufacturing. It needed to focus its research. DOANE: And he said the response from it was just so good that he decided to pursue the field. They were able to get funding on some bill that was going through. His name is on a couple patents. But he wound up going to General Motors. Privacy Policy. [Laugh] But there's no manufacturing in the U.S. that I'm aware of. We have partnered with DOANE: It was very good for the LCI [and also for Kent State in other ways]. It just seemed like a good thing for the physics department and university as well as I could see interest from the faculty and university for doing this. Faculty and research fellows in the Kent group were finding it more difficult to find support. I wanted to get him a position in physics. I brought Peter in, and he was very helpful. I think he may have written it when he was at the University of Cincinnati. I think that really helped because it forced them to think, "What can I really make with this stuff?" She came out on a train around 1915, I think. Of course, the military got into it very significantly later, and a lot of my success in running the Institute was supported by the military.CRAWFORD: Would you say that individuals in the Institute really saw these kinds of issues, like building a watch face, the work with temperature sensors, or other kinds ofbecause I think some of that military funding was exploring the utility of liquid crystals as different kinds of detectors and so forth. When I graduated, I had to go into the Army because in order to keep from going into the Army while I was in collegethe Korean War was going on, and I didn't want to get pulled out of college to have to go to Korea. I don't know how Fergason envisioned the Institute, but I do know that it wasn't like Glenn envisioned it. [Laugh] I've heard other scientists comment on this, that it seems like the younger you are, the more bold you are in trying new things. However, NSF took it over on their own grounds, which is to say, at that particular time, NSF only funded individual grants, not group efforts. DOANE: First of all, investment. Glenn was opposed to that but he did not stop me from pursuing the issue . At that particular time, I was very fortunate because that was a time when universities all around the country were hiring scientists to build their programs because there was lots of money available through the National Science Foundation and various places for research, and universities were taking advantage of that. I think he was able to keep everybody here and keep the place running. I thought Jim did a nice job getting this program off the ground. DARPA was funding research in the company very well. India, Russia, Japan, all over the place. They may have been beginning to think, "How are we going to do a big flat panel consisting of a matrix of many pixels?" After ALCOM got under way we had an Industrial Partnership Program involving some 20 US companies. Many properties of these cosmic rays were unknown at the time. In the case of student dissertations, it is necessary to publish. It's just kind of in my nature. He convinced Timex that he could make wristwatch faces with this technology, and they gave him a grant to do that through Kent State University. It's a film that goes on a liquid crystal display so you can see it at a very wide angle. The dispersed polymers are necessary to control the width of the written line. Well, I talked to Shirley, and we didn't know that we could really afford to move down there. CRAWFORD: Given that your career really spans the development of liquid crystals from a scientific curiosity to a technology we use every dayDOANE: It's been really fun to see that.CRAWFORD: I can imagine. Is that a fair characterization? [Laugh] You better learn how to write grants. But he came in very early, after John West.] We drove back to Columbia, Missouri for graduate school.CRAWFORD: Why was it you wanted to work with Professor Duller?DOANE: He had one experiment in mind that I thought was really, really neat. In this case, the university licenses the patents generated by faculty and students back to them to start a company. Also, I think it forces people, particularly in governments, to look at how we deal with diseases. I wanted the technology we were developing to wind up in the community. They began to take a real interest in this technology because it was reflective, displayed color and was low power. I do remember Tektronix because I was surprised they did that. CRAWFORD: Was the goal to further understand the properties of liquid crystals? DOANE: I never viewed myself as a pioneer. We could put more people together. The two come together through technology transfer and patent agreements]. And that's what I formed KDI on. Call today 770-334-8916 ask for Tanya. DOANE: You can find venture capitalists, but finding one that fits with you can be an issue. And in the meantime, I'd talked with others who may have wanted to invest in it, some people up in Cleveland who thought they might do it. The funding for Kent Displays was strictly Bill Manning.CRAWFORD: And then, you mentioned getting some defense contracts. When Jim's company began to fail, Hoffmann-La Roche wanted to buy the patent from him. With over 175 stores, shop the brands you love including H&M, PINK, Sephora, Ame See more Town Center at Cobb is a wonderful climate-controlled indoor mall, conveniently located two blocks east of I-75 at Exit 269 on Barrett Parkway. I couldn't run the company because I was directing the Institute. I said, "I think what I would do is, go down to the store and get some epoxy." We were able to get substantial DARPA support for things. It's a lot more than just doing science. We started a project studying these materials with electric field pulses. After he got his degree, he worked in industry, and it could've been that he just didn't understand academia. Also, there were a lot of students involved. CRAWFORD: Was it recently established?DOANE: No, it had been going on for some years based around other types of display technologies. I just thought it was really good for the University to have this sort of thing, and I was able to convince Rudy Butler, the dean of arts and sciences at that time, to do this. I thought that having him there would really be great. Town Center at Cobb is Northwest Atlanta's main shopping destination. This is what inspired me when I got into patenting myself. This gave high visibility to Kent State internationally. We carry 34 draft beers, hard ciders, and sodas on draft daily with many other bottled beers to choose from as well. I walked into his office, and he invited me in, I sat down, and the first question he asked was, "Are you a Methodist?" Under Doane, the LCI received significant funding from state, federal, and corporate sources including Project THEMIS, DARPA, and the National Science Foundation. The only way I knew to do that was to do it myself. They gave materials for a presentation, and they were really helpful. It was well-organized by that time and liquid crystal displays were beginning to dominate the display activity.CRAWFORD: Do you recall what year this first meeting you attended was? I really prepared for that. But with the rise of online shopping and shifting consumer . It's been very helpful. It was really a difficult process. MATTHEW CRAWFORD: My name is Matthew Crawford. But we were told why we were not awarded, because we were doing work with polymers, yet we had no polymer program. Before, it was called Kent Display Systems. The discoveries with magnetic resonance were recognized, but only by academic researchers within the field. Fortunately, I was picked, as well as quite a few others, although not everybody but most. They have a lot of secrets. We've talked a little bit about how the academic and industrial worlds were in some ways separate universes. J. WILLIAM DOANE: Good morning.CRAWFORD: We wanted to pick up with our discussion of your experience and work at the Liquid Crystal Institute in the 1970s, leading up to when you took over as associate director in '79, then later as director in ['83]. Jim had a contract with the Gruen Watch Company to make these things. I'm interested in what he says about the role of the institute. From Akron University [we have hired students with expertise in polymers. Another great incentive is that your university appointments are only for nine months, and you've got to support your family in the summertime. And that really helped me because then, I had a unique display technology that we could propose to them to develop. CRAWFORD: Just thinking about this historical moment, and you mentioned the shootings, which of course happened May 4, 1970, part of this whole moment with the protest against the Vietnam War. The company today develops all sorts of stuff to get it closer and closer to paper yet make it interactive with digital electronics. It's really too bad that he and Glenn did not get along because it would've been wonderful if this issue had been resolved another way. I think she guided me a lot in this direction. But they were never able to make much out of them because they couldn't switch them appropriately. I had a friend at MIT who told me that was what they liked to do at MIT, get faculty, post-docs, and students to be entrepreneurs to spin off the technology. CRAWFORD: They've basically shut campus down. the setup: grab your own pill bottle fill it with water and maybe a tinge of vodka to get that alcohol smell. Full basement offers additional storage and workshop space. CRAWFORD: I know you said there were tensions between Fergason and Brown. Theoretically, you could make what was called a raser. Oftentimes, people talk about academic research, especially at this time, as being more independent because there weren't private interests, they weren't working for a company's lab. As soon as Timex found out about this deal with Hoffmann-La Roche, they, of course, were upset. CRAWFORD: ALCOM is funded in 1991, and five years later, you retire. Win over prospective landlords with your smart budgeting. ], CRAWFORD: Yeah. Having local universities around really helps industries and vice versa. There was just nothing. I did not see at the time, however, how valuable the patents would be and all the applications and uses of polymer dispersions.] But I had no issues with him. However, up until the ALCOM Center, nobody knew how to electronically switch it from one texture to the other. And they decided to go with a twist cell. You could pump it at one frequency and look at another frequency at an enhanced signal. He has been key to the companys success and is with the company today.CRAWFORD: And that was in 1993?DOANE: Yeah. You have to be able to see how you fit in and how you can contribute. Thinking about the generation of young people becoming scientists today, could you talk about what's involved in being a scientist? It was quite an experience for her. I thought, "I'm going to see if I can get the administration to let me use this program in the Institute." At one time, I thought maybe I could somehow get him involved in the graduate program or something, but he didn't want to do that. With regard to displays, there was one thing we did not have a program in was the active matrix. But it was clear that it wasn't going to be a very big business, and I wasn't sure that Bill Manning would ever get that much enjoyment out of signs. CRAWFORD: I'm thinking of somebody like the current CEO, Asad Khan, who did his dissertation at the LCI while he was working full-time at Kent Displays.DOANE: We've had a lot of students here from Kent State in addition to Asad as well as students from other local universities. This put them in an awkward position. CRAWFORD: How did you find her?DOANE: I knew her because she was in the physics department, and I saw what a good administrator she was there. Manhattan Regional Airport (MHK) is 11 minutes away by car. Working with them at that time, was one of [Alfred] Saupe's former students when he was at the University of Freiburg in Freiburg Germany. I don't know how it is these days, but back in those days, if you were going to have a graduate program, the faculty had to bring in the money to do it. And the governor came. I wound up getting the equipment that Bell Labs was using. [Laugh] I had to try to tie all of these programs together to show how they could blend together. Samsung in Korea does it today on 60-inch and larger screens. Because I was working on it, and other people in the physics department began to notice. University of Oklahoma at Stillwater, various places. Saupe would've been the type of witness that worked against you.CRAWFORD: Right, hostile.DOANE: Right, a hostile witness. And if you publish it, you can't further develop it in order to patent it. Japan really took the bull by the horns and [, in the end, were the ones to successfully commercialize it.] I'm glad to hear it. Obviously, they weren't going to go to Japan because they wanted their own technologies. First, I wanted to start spin-off companies. Spinning off a company is what I eventually wound up doing myself, which is to use technology to spin off companies instead of trying to make money for the university by licensing the technology to various places around the world. [Laugh] The Japanese were able to [develop this at the high volume manufacturing level.] I had considered staying and working at the University of Washington, but I really wanted to work with Nelson Duller. It's very different today than back then.CRAWFORD: When the company first started, it didn't have a manufacturing line. Right away, I could tell this was really something different because with the NMR, you could see both features very well [by how the molecules were ordered]. The relationship and collaboration between industry and Kent State University during Doanes directorship was important to the growth of the LCI. The writing can stay there forever if desired. Charming home in a well kept quiet community. [Laugh] [Polymer dispersed liquid crystals (PDLCs) became known in industry as well, worldwide.] CRAWFORD: By secrets, youre talking about intellectual property?DOANE: [Yeah, primarily intellectual property but also research results. I think that was probably our first market for that thing. I just thought engineering was the place to be for what I seemed to like. I was in artillery school at Fort Sill Oklahoma. The International Liquid Crystal Conferences initiated by Glenn Brown were now being held in places like Berlin Germany and other foreign countries. Bravo aux quipes pour ce nouveau projet. Early 80s. CRAWFORD: In the scientific world, especially in academia, publication is very important. CRAWFORD: What was the reaction to that?DOANE: They picked up on it, but they didn't always do it as well as I would have liked. I started applying at various places, and there was this one school looking for people. However, at that time, he was not very well. However, there were a couple people on the board of trustees at Kent State University at that time who were very helpful. I knew I needed somebody in optics. Natural selection has taken its toll and only the best establishments have survived this shift in demographics. [We are, of course, not anywhere near where Cambridge and Silicon Valley are but we do, at least, have a start.] She'd recall these numbers easily as she was a superb manager.CRAWFORD: What did this mean in terms of the research agenda, either for your group or the Institute as a whole? I was an officer, so she could come, and we could live off-base. That may have caught their attention. [Laugh] It was clear that it was really going to take off. I just thought it was important to patent to establish it as your discovery or development with Kent State ownership. Shortly after that, we had a project with a company outside the beltway in Washington DC that had a defense contract to develop some very secret thing. I was really impressed. But the power drain was very low. He was going to give a paper on liquid crystals as temperature sensors.CRAWFORD: This was the year you finished your PhD?DOANE: Yes, either '64 or '65. I wanted to tie these things together. [One theme we've discussed is the relationship between academia and industry. Each room has its own private bath. I talked to a few people in the chemistry department, although I didn't have to do too much there because Glenn was a chemist. It was a lot of work. We had nice sales in Israel. If I get into this now, it'll take us into the separate issues, the flat panel display field.CRAWFORD: Maybe one way to approach this would be, what was your sense of Dr. Brown's vision for the Institute?DOANE: His vision of the Institute, as I understood it, he wanted it to be an academic institute, but he didn't want it on the research campus where other Kent State science research was going on. For example, Glenn Brown had a great relationship with George Gray, of the University of Hull, who invented the liquid crystal materials of the type Jim Fergason needed to make his company a success. He had moved on by then and wanted to develop and ultimately sell liquid crystal displays for watches. At that point, I went to the University of Akron, where they had a polymer program, and I found a group over there headed by Frank Harris that really wanted to do this. Do you think now, almost 20 years on from the establishment of Kent Displays, what's happening in Northeast Ohio is kind of like what's happening in Cambridge or Silicon Valley?DOANE: Using them as examples really paid off in getting us started in that direction. But contributing to the war effort had little to do with it. I could have a display film that was flexible, the liquid crystal wouldn't flow out of it, it was trapped inside of it. I never wanted to run the company because I didn't think I had the right expertise. George helped Glenn very much in forming this first liquid crystal conference. It's not like the other kinds of displays that have to be electronically refreshed over and over as well as require a backlight. I wanted something like MIT and Stanford, where they had companies building up all around the universities. Then, we had to decide what to do with this program. He got involved with a guy in the biology department to use liquid crystals to detect cancer. Universities run on endowments, too. I wanted to see more spin-off companies. However, after two years, Nelson Duller's wife didn't like it in Missouri and wanted to go back to Texas, where she was from. Even then, when I wrote the patent, I knew nothing about licensing. CRAWFORD: Around this time there was a student, Nuno Vaz, who graduated from the LCI and went to General Motors.DOANE: He was one of my students. Do additional legal protections exist for the LGBTQ community at the county level in Cobb County? Joel Domino, was the company's first employee. The question was, what display did we make first to make use of it? Also, Kent had just started its PhD program in solid-state physics, and I just wanted it to grow from solid-state physics to physics in general, which it did. Please include proper citation and credit for use of this item. The twist cell turned out to be the best approach but had its own drawbacks. More important, there was no centralized funding. I thought it was great. The University had no program for licensing. DOANE: Yeah. He decided to patent it on his own which turned out to be a serious problem for the University.As I recall, there was an attorney up in Cleveland to help him in this effort. DOANE: I don't think so. ]CRAWFORD: Having worked in this field, what does technology transfer mean? [Laugh] DOANE: [Laugh] Well, this was typical Glenn, it turns out. But I had no problems with Jim, other than the fact that he just didn't meld well with the academic environment he was working in. And I found another polymer group at Case Western Reserve, headed by Jack Koenig, in the chemical engineering department. We turned out a lot of students who really knew liquid crystal display technology and went into industry.CRAWFORD: Phil Bos is a professor?DOANE: He's a physics professor working at the liquid crystal institute. I wanted to try something different to keep it local. Again, we lived out in the country, and I went to a small town for high school. [Laugh] That was a huge effort, the first time I ever worked with other universities, and I learned the issues with that. If I had something like you proposed the other day, where the institute was off campus, apart from the University, it would've been something I might've been able to deal with a lot more easily. I wonder if you have any additional observations or insights that you'd like to share. Dave Uhrich was doing the Mssbauer effect. Nuclear magnetic resonance turned out to be a really good tool for that. We loved the state of Washington. Another senator saw this and said, "That shouldn't be. You can't have any dust particles around. Welcome Home! The goal is to just have a conversation, and certainly, you've filled in the picture a lot about the Institute, and the development of liquid crystals, and the changes in the way science is done. That $8 million would've been a lot better spent going to developing products and marketing. But it was a hot new field, and I thought it was a better way to go. CRAWFORD: Was that a consideration for you in making the decision, the job opportunities?DOANE: I don't remember. He went with Fergason, actually, when he left to start his company. That's very, very rare. I didn't like the way this ended up.CRAWFORD: Just to play devil's advocate, would it be fair to say that this was a product of maybe the decision to have the LCI off-campus? We will schedule showings by appointment only until the tenant has moved. The University of Missouri was where I could go because I had support. It was a different approach for a university to deal with. I knew it would take millions of dollars to do it. I'm here interviewing Dr. J. William Doane, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Emeritus Director of the Liquid Crystal Institute at Kent State University, and Co-Founder and Senior Advisor at Kent Displays in Kent, Ohio. This turned out to be a big problem, actually.CRAWFORD: Id be happy to hear. He did that, and the experiment was a failure because the liquid crystal mixed with the epoxy. $269,900. They further provided substantial funding to Kent State for PDLC research. [These days universities are now very involved in that kind of research, further exploring its feasibility for certain applications. The investment may be here in Northeast Ohio, but the mentality isn't. In a liquid crystal display there are color filters. I think the people doing display work just wanted to make displays whatever way they could but liquid crystal displays seemed to be winning out. Here, you had to put these transistors on large surfaces for TV and other display screens. And that's the proposal we gave them and that is what they funded. Then, I saw that maybe this was an opportunity for a university to get involved in display research. And he was very helpful and supportive of this sort of thing. [Laugh] The agreements we got were often really helpful to us. I knew how to work with government agencies very well. It was the start of that. I think it's going to play a strong role in history, and what you're documenting will be very helpful to others. On the bad side, it shut down a lot of the interpersonal activity it takes to get things done. It is in a very convenient location, about 2 miles to KSU, 2 miles to I-75, less than 1 mile to downtown kennesaw and 4 miles to town center mall. Asad worked very closely with me on all of these things, and eventually he took over as principal investigator on all government contacts ultimately becoming CTO as I got closer to retirement. [As I mentioned earlier, group funding had ended and liquid crystal research on campus was beginning to fall apart.] I saw only a few closed stores on. You have to know how to do that and how to learn from others. But it sounds like it was, in some ways, good for the LCI because [inaudible]. Fundamentally, it's very simple. Kent State wasn't widely known for anything at that time. If you look at early articles in the Kent Stater, the campus newspaper, there's a lot of discussionDOANE: He loved that concept. 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